"Abandon ship!" Developers leaving Square Enix! Is the "final" Final Fantasy at hand?

[SuperMegaShark]

Originally Posted by sunnygrg

Erm... Clannad, Air, Kanon, Fate/Stay Night? The funny thing is it's not even my subjective opinion. Those Visual Novels destroy any Final Fantasy story in terms of depth, sentiments, and story-telling. Of course, they are lacking in other technical departments.

Honorable mention goes to ICO, SoTC, Xenosaga series, Chrono Trigger, etc.

If those honorable mentions is "not your subjective opinion" I respectfully disagree. Chrono Trigger was good, no it was great, but the narrative wasn't that fantastic. ICO does not even have a word of dialougue, and yes I know you can tell a story without that. Just not a very interesting one in my opinon. Haven't played the Xenosaga so couldn't comment on that.

But I agree with metdevil678. Not saying Final Fantasy is THE best games storywise, I happen to think so. Mostly Final Fantasy Tactics political and religious intrigues.

[Pyrofrost TheJRPGamer]

Originally Posted by Zyzxx

Telling you to "shoot yourself" was a figure of speech. The point was that if you don't think Hironobu Sakaguchi, the REASON Final Fantasy even exists, or Nobuo Uematsu are "important", then you need to get your head straight.

As for saying I "[don't] know shit about how business works", I'd like to know where you got that idea, or what proof you have of my credentials. I'd also like to know what you're even talking about, unless you're referring to my >>speculations<< that Square Enix is sinking as a company and could go belly up if the trend continues of losing its employees.

Since you decided to clear that up, I am willing to converse.

First off, I never said Sakaguchi and Uematsu were not important. If I felt like they were of no importance, then I would not support Mistwalker.

I should have; however, chose to use the term many instead of the word some, in reference to the important people. Also my reference to important people were not developers, writers, and composers; because new ones and good ones can always be found. It was a reference to the bigwigs (of which Sakaguchi was one).

The point being, the loss of a creator, key developers, or a couple of bigwigs does not automatically equal the death or demise of a series. As new people can be hired and people can be promoted to carry the torch. However, lets say a majority of the bigwigs decided to resign all at once. They would be replaced, possibly by ones that hold a vision not including Final Fantasy. This could equal the death of a series, unless they had their arms twisted by investors to make more Final Fantasy games of course
Even then, with completely new people at the helm, it would possibly mean a complete reinvention of the brand and series.


EDIT:

Originally Posted by sunnygrg

Erm... Clannad, Air, Kanon, Fate/Stay Night? The funny thing is it's not even my subjective opinion. Those Visual Novels destroy any Final Fantasy story in terms of depth, sentiments, and story-telling. Of course, they are lacking in other technical departments.

Yeah, too bad most NA gamers really only care about killing shit and the most realistic graphics possible. Story-telling takes a back seat on this side of the pond. Hell, if a God of War visual novel came out, and they got some high profile author on the story, it wouldn't sell well. Simply because it wouldn't involve the gamer actively killing shit.

Originally Posted by SuperMegaShark

If those honorable mentions is "not your subjective opinion" I respectfully disagree. Chrono Trigger was good, no it was great, but the narrative wasn't that fantastic. ICO does not even have a word of dialougue, and yes I know you can tell a story without that. Just not a very interesting one in my opinon. Haven't played the Xenosaga so couldn't comment on that.

But I agree with metdevil678. Not saying Final Fantasy is THE best games storywise, I happen to think so. Mostly Final Fantasy Tactics political and religious intrigues.

The Xeno series and Shin Megami Tensei series have both set the standard in my opinion as far as RPG depth, sentiments, story-telling, and characterization. In some of them, it may not always be well paced. However, this does not take away from the fact that I see these as the best the industry has to offer.

[Tsunami]

Originally Posted by Zyzxx

Calm down, and untangle your panties. I don't hate Final Fantasy now. I still love it,

I am perfectly calm, this is just the way I type. I don't care enough about what is said on the internet to get angry about it, I'm not stupid. And by constantly, I'm not on about just this thread, I'm on about a different thread where you have quoted me and then put words in my mouth and have accused me of saying shit I didn't fucking say.

Also, I have no problem you posting here, or keeping that avatar, I just don't see how you can ask someone that question when you are in a similar boat, makes you rather hypocritical. That was the whole point of me asking you the same question you asked them.

Final note related to the bold part of that quote...

Originally Posted by Zyzxx

Square Enix, you have just lost a devote fan from childhood. SE seriously needs to get their head out of their ass...

And the name of the thread that quote is from; I have officially lost all respect for the Final Fantasy series. Thanks, Square Enix. Make up your mind?

[SuperMegaShark]

Originally Posted by Pyrofrost TheJRPGamer

The Xeno series and Shin Megami Tensei series have both set the standard in my opinion as far as RPG depth, sentiments, story-telling, and characterization. In some of them, it may not always be well paced. However, this does not take away from the fact that I see these as the best the industry has to offer.

The pace is actually something I don't mind much, as long as the story itself is rewarding enough.

Looking forward to finally play a Shin Megami Tensei game soon. Hopefully it's as good as people keep telling me. :=)

[Zyzxx]

Originally Posted by Tsunami

I am perfectly calm, this is just the way I type. I don't care enough about what is said on the internet to get angry about it, I'm not stupid. And by constantly, I'm not on about just this thread, I'm on about a different thread where you have quoted me and then put words in my mouth and have accused me of saying shit I didn't fucking say.

Also, I have no problem you posting here, or keeping that avatar, I just don't see how you can ask someone that question when you are in a similar boat, makes you rather hypocritical. That was the whole point of me asking you the same question you asked them.

Final note related to the bold part of that quote...



And the name of the thread that quote is from; I have officially lost all respect for the Final Fantasy series. Thanks, Square Enix. Make up your mind?

Oh jeez, that was you? No wonder. It all makes sense now! LMAO!

I still DO love Final Fantasy. The older Final Fantasy. Square Enix HAS lost my respect and fandom, but that doesn't mean I can't/won't enjoy the older games that were still great (namely everything prior to Square merging with Enix, i.e. Squaresoft). Seems to me you not only have a poor way of saying things, but also poor comprehension.

And above all else, consider it "tough love". I want to see Square Enix become as great as Squaresoft was, but if not, it needs to learn the hard way, go belly up, and leave room for other companies to thrive and take the throne. I have my eye on Mistwalker, since that was founded by Sakaguchi himself, and has made great games so far (Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, The Last Story).

[sunnygrg]

Originally Posted by SuperMegaShark

If those honorable mentions is "not your subjective opinion" I respectfully disagree. Chrono Trigger was good, no it was great, but the narrative wasn't that fantastic. ICO does not even have a word of dialougue, and yes I know you can tell a story without that. Just not a very interesting one in my opinon. Haven't played the Xenosaga so couldn't comment on that.

But I agree with metdevil678. Not saying Final Fantasy is THE best games storywise, I happen to think so. Mostly Final Fantasy Tactics political and religious intrigues.

Those honorable mentions are my personal preferences. But, you have to play those VNs I have mentioned. Absolutely beautiful story-telling. If you don't understand kanji like me, there are PC version that have had English patches out in the wild.

[SuperMegaShark]

Originally Posted by sunnygrg

Those honorable mentions are my personal preferences. But, you have to play those VNs I have mentioned. Absolutely beautiful story-telling. If you don't understand kanji like me, there are PC version that have had English patches out in the wild.

Oh how I wish i did!

But yeah, visual novels are pretty great, have only played about 2 or 3 of them though and none of those you mentioned. Recognize the titles from various animes though. Might be worthwhile checking up on!

[julesthegr8]

I dont think its done yet. Although no FF since 10 has captured my imagination and had me beating it and playing thru multiple times. 7, 10, and 9 were my favs

[MoogledStats]

In January 2010, Wada, asked about his opinion on "big-budget, long-in-development" Square Enix games such as Final Fantasy XIII, noted: "[W]hether we are going to continue to internally create this type of game remains to be seen, because I actually feel that the team that was involved with Final Fantasy XIII should next move on to create and generate some 'next generation' forms of play. Internally and externally I feel there's an expectation of Square Enix to offer something new, and I really think that the Final Fantasy team could create something completely different, but at the moment they're strictly catering to the particular audience they have now." - Yoichi Wada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[NewVincent]

Originally Posted by metdevil678

Man, you must know of some pretty cool games that no one else has ever heard of. Because I've never come across a game with a better story than an FF game...

Xenogears has a more in-depth story than most FF games :/

Cept for the original Tactics, that game stands out for itself as one of the best implementation of story within the series, despite the fact they had l i t t l e m o n e y....

Sides, haven't you heard of the Suikoden Series? The hell man? Plus there's a lot of stuff out there that's good like Valkyrie Profile, Wild Arms, Tales.... Heck, the Dark Cloud series still remains one of my fave Lvl-5 titles, Rogue Galaxy wasn't bad either...

Sides, Gameplay is a lot more important than story within a game anyway, it's what keeps you going and provides the overall enjoyment of the title! Having a good balance of the gameplay loop (Objective-Challenge-Reward), steady and consistent design choices and nicely implemented game mechanics with a slight twist of originality is the thing that drives you to finish the game anyway (all the more if its in synch with the story). If you fail to have all this, then the gamer will get bored and quit on your ass anyway, even if you get the Pulitzer prize for the story!

Like, I doubt anyone would really have really finished FF7 based on story alone if the battle system didn't look really good in 3D and was fun for the time. The Materia system was meh at its core but managed to add at least the right amount of innovation (at least from systems for the previous titles of the series)

Really the thing that makes FF different is that THEY INNOVATE from one game to another! It's that CHANGE in either Battle System, Leveling System, Story progression or even a COMBINATION of them that makes the game great and unique in their own right! Sure, good story, Uematsu music and Amano styled characters transform the game from a great title to a masterpiece, but they can never transform a poorly designed game into something great!

That's what I liked about the FF XIII, if it's one thing they did good, GREAT even is the Battle System. Paradigm shifts, the possibility to change your tactic in real time during a battle depending on the situation, the fast paced action, buffs and debuffs ACTUALLY making a difference and NOT BEING BUGGED FOR A CHANGE! Everything made this VERY VERY ENTERTAINING and CHALLENGING AT THE SAME TIME!

Provided they scraped the risk with the retry option (so game over was pretty much useless) I don't remember getting killed that many times in a FF game, lest I stumbled upon like super powerful enemies in FF XII or FF II that I wasn't supposed to fight at that time anyway!

Devs abandoning ship is pretty much because the company is changing strategy policy and starts milking employees for their worth more than anything else! Or starts outsourcing shit because its cheaper!

Its a business model decision that they need to do in order to keep competitive and actually withstand as a company! It's crap but you have to blame other shit like EA or Activision for this!